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How to Prepare, Position and Promote Your Mid-Career Pivot Featuring John Neral

How to Prepare, Position and Promote Your Mid-Career Pivot Featuring John Neral

John Neral helps mid-career professionals prepare, position, and promote who they are and what they do, so they can SHOW UP to find a job they love or love the job they have. He’s the author of the newly published book “Your Mid-Career GPS – Four Steps to Figuring Out What’s Next.” He and his spouse are the proud parents of a rescue cat named, “Amy Farrah Meowler” named after their love of the show, the Big Bang Theory.

We discuss:

  • The fear of being stuck [02:44]
  • What to do with your unique professional value [04:32]
  • The people we hurt when we don’t make our offers [09:32]
  • No place is a party [12:54]
  • The role of a coach for planning a coaching career [16:18]
  • The things that make the coaching fit easy [19:11]
  • The most fascinating part of the career journey [22:55]

Learn more about John at https://johnneral.com, LinkedIn, Facebook and Instagram.

Transcript
John Neral:

The allure of being like, I'm going to be my own boss.

John Neral:

I'm going to have my own business.

John Neral:

I'm going to do all of these things is great.

John Neral:

And it's wonderful until you sit there at one point for me, this definitely

John Neral:

It's not the job.

John Neral:

That's the hobby.

John Neral:

This is my work.

John Neral:

And if I'm going to really make this happen, these are the things

David Shriner-Cahn:

Welcome to smashing the plateau.

David Shriner-Cahn:

We help you get unstuck so you can do what you love and get paid.

David Shriner-Cahn:

What you're worth consistently.

David Shriner-Cahn:

I'm your host David Schreiner Kahn today on episode 599 of smashing the plateau.

David Shriner-Cahn:

I'm speaking with a coach for mid-career professionals, John.

David Shriner-Cahn:

John helps mid career professionals prepare position and promote who

David Shriner-Cahn:

If you want to learn how to gain more control over your working destiny

David Shriner-Cahn:

I believe everyone should have the opportunity to do what they

David Shriner-Cahn:

On my podcast, I've interviewed hundreds of successful entrepreneurs, many of whom

David Shriner-Cahn:

We've created a free ebook with 49 actionable steps from 49 of our

David Shriner-Cahn:

It includes tips to help you with your mindset, relationships,

David Shriner-Cahn:

You can get your copy of 49 tips to smash your

David Shriner-Cahn:

That's smashing the plateau.com/tips.

David Shriner-Cahn:

Now let's welcome, John.

David Shriner-Cahn:

John helps mid-career professionals prepare position and promote who

David Shriner-Cahn:

He's the author of the newly published book.

David Shriner-Cahn:

You are mid-career GPS four steps to figuring out what's next.

David Shriner-Cahn:

He and his spouse are the proud parents of a rescue cat named Amy Farah, Meow.

David Shriner-Cahn:

They're named after their love of the show.

David Shriner-Cahn:

The big bang theory, John, welcome to the show,

John Neral:

David, thanks so much for having me on today.

John Neral:

It's great to connect and I'm looking forward

David Shriner-Cahn:

to today.

David Shriner-Cahn:

So John, you coach a lot of professionals going through mid-career

David Shriner-Cahn:

What do you see as some of their biggest challenges to

John Neral:

beginning?

John Neral:

Probably the biggest challenge they face is this fear of being stuck,

John Neral:

They have a sense of what they think they want to do, or they're pretty

John Neral:

But they may be looking for a different challenge.

John Neral:

Their biggest fear is about being stuck and about being stuck in a

John Neral:

They're not going to be able to grow.

John Neral:

If they get caught with the golden handcuffs where leaving may not give

John Neral:

They just fear of being stuck in that job.

John Neral:

And then really looking at 10, 15, 20, more years in a job and

David Shriner-Cahn:

Um, and for those folks, if they do stay in their job for

John Neral:

out?

John Neral:

It's an understandable concern.

John Neral:

And that also becomes a fear where they then start really questioning

John Neral:

And whether or not they are staying as current and they are

John Neral:

So it's absolutely an understandable fear.

John Neral:

So

David Shriner-Cahn:

Speaker:

where do they need to do.

David Shriner-Cahn:

Speaker:

A to understand their professional value and be to take action.

John Neral:

So to understand their professional value, it's important for

John Neral:

Specifically, I call it their unique professional value.

John Neral:

You know, David, we're all good at things.

John Neral:

And there's a lot of other people who do similar things that we do.

John Neral:

But only we bring what I like to call our genius into that work and

John Neral:

So if we can lean into specifically where our value is and why that is

John Neral:

To our organizations, to our clients.

John Neral:

Then we get to show up from a very different place.

John Neral:

And we almost get to be like that person who is known as the go-to or who is

John Neral:

Nobody really wants to let us go.

John Neral:

At that point, there

David Shriner-Cahn:

was an example of somebody like that.

John Neral:

An example of that would be.

John Neral:

Let's do, let's just take a project manager, for example, because I do

John Neral:

They're dependable, they're reliable.

John Neral:

They get projects delivered on time and under budget, but there's that other

John Neral:

The talent development.

John Neral:

It might be something in their project management skill set

John Neral:

It might be the way they build and maintain their client relationships.

John Neral:

It's those kind of things that really become more of an asset and helps people

John Neral:

This is where I am most valuable.

John Neral:

Here's where I can help you next with that next project, with that next

John Neral:

Okay.

David Shriner-Cahn:

So once they have identified their unique

John Neral:

They need to live it, breathe it, share it, demonstrate it and tell

John Neral:

And it ties into what their professional brand is as well as their reputation.

John Neral:

Right.

John Neral:

Jeff Bezos has this great quote that says our brand is what people say

John Neral:

Our unique professional value is directly tied to what people get to hear about us.

John Neral:

Our reputation is how well we deliver on that.

John Neral:

You know, it would, it would be something as simple as if

John Neral:

And I don't make that offer.

John Neral:

Who am I hurting?

John Neral:

I'm hurting you in some way, because I'm not giving you an opportunity to realize.

John Neral:

Absorb that offer and decide whether or not you want it.

John Neral:

And I'm also hurting myself because I never put myself out there.

John Neral:

So the action steps that you have references, we have to be out there making

John Neral:

Our very organizationally loyal and they've been with a company

John Neral:

They have to find what that next offer is that there are always

David Shriner-Cahn:

Right.

David Shriner-Cahn:

Are you saying that there's an offer that they need to be ready to make to their.

David Shriner-Cahn:

If they're employed.

John Neral:

Absolutely.

John Neral:

Right.

John Neral:

And that offer may not necessarily, it doesn't have to be, I want

John Neral:

It may be, I want to lead this particular project.

John Neral:

I want to get on this assignment.

John Neral:

It's, it's putting yourself out there with that offer to say, here's

John Neral:

Here's where I see myself being a value.

John Neral:

Am I needed?

John Neral:

Do you see the same thing?

John Neral:

I mean from that point on, in the conversation, especially when it's either,

John Neral:

Finger on the pulse of and decide what your next move.

David Shriner-Cahn:

Okay.

David Shriner-Cahn:

I was going to go back to the project manager example and, um, you know,

David Shriner-Cahn:

And talk about an example of what kind of offer a project

John Neral:

Well, let's go this

David Shriner-Cahn:

route because stories help, help sort of frame how

John Neral:

this works.

John Neral:

Absolutely.

John Neral:

So let's just take, for example, an it company.

John Neral:

This is kind of top of mind for me right now.

John Neral:

So you have an it company and a lot of demands, a lot of

John Neral:

And.

John Neral:

The focus of the company is understandably results, driven, deploy the project,

John Neral:

And as a project manager, while you are known for delivering the project

John Neral:

That there's a sense that morale is getting pretty.

John Neral:

People are getting frustrated.

John Neral:

People are getting burnt out.

John Neral:

The project manager who is good at all.

John Neral:

The technical parts of delivery is one thing, a project manager who can step

John Neral:

Be resourceful and develop people on their team becomes a much more enticing offer

John Neral:

And at the end of the day, they just don't really have a good time doing it.

John Neral:

We can get results while at the same time being the person who.

John Neral:

Listens who is empathetic, who is knowledgeable, who is willing to train

John Neral:

We have to get this done kind of thing

David Shriner-Cahn:

right now.

David Shriner-Cahn:

Let's talk about the situation where the employer doesn't really

David Shriner-Cahn:

Doesn't really care about morale.

David Shriner-Cahn:

And as much more interested in just getting things done.

David Shriner-Cahn:

And you, as the project manager, since you have the soft skills to really develop the

David Shriner-Cahn:

Sometimes this happens when there's a new new manager.

David Shriner-Cahn:

Or these things often happen when there's, um, there could be an

David Shriner-Cahn:

And then all of a sudden the acquiring company is way less interested in the

David Shriner-Cahn:

So these kinds of misalignments happen in for various reasons.

David Shriner-Cahn:

And they're not connected to your own performance.

David Shriner-Cahn:

What do you do in that case?

David Shriner-Cahn:

Because a, you may have the feelings of being stuck that you described earlier,

David Shriner-Cahn:

And you do want to be working, you need to be working and you probably

John Neral:

I deal with that a lot in my practice, the majority of

John Neral:

And what you just described is such a common scenario across a

John Neral:

A leave or an opportunity to leverage their talents and expertise and

John Neral:

The first thing I want to acknowledge though, is that

John Neral:

And for a company let's say that's been acquired or a company that's

John Neral:

We know that happened.

John Neral:

So let's just call that out for what it is.

John Neral:

And for the employer who finds themselves in a values conflict that

John Neral:

And they find themselves almost in this churn and burn kind of environment.

John Neral:

The first thing that I do with my clients on that is we have to

John Neral:

Where are they feeling that disconnect?

John Neral:

And is there an opportunity for them to have an intentional conversation with

John Neral:

If not, we know it gets very, very difficult to wake up

John Neral:

And when those kinds of things happen, when that inner voice starts

John Neral:

You're not satisfied.

John Neral:

They don't care about you anymore.

John Neral:

Then you start really entertaining the idea of if I were to make a leap

John Neral:

And the truth of the matter is, is that the older we get, especially once we

John Neral:

And I work with my clients on drilling.

John Neral:

Specifically what that fit looks like for them, because that's going to help inform

John Neral:

Not only from when they actually start looking for jobs, but when

David Shriner-Cahn:

So John for those folks that realize that no place is

David Shriner-Cahn:

They want to become a consultant or whatever, what do they need to do so that

John Neral:

David, that question hits so close to home because I remember

John Neral:

I mean, there were, there were several things.

John Neral:

I mean, obviously the first thing was I realized I was very grateful for the

John Neral:

I was.

John Neral:

There is not going to be any advancement.

John Neral:

I wasn't getting a raise.

John Neral:

Wasn't getting a promotion, all those kinds of things because

John Neral:

So when I started talking with.

John Neral:

I started talking with colleagues and got really clear about like, yeah,

John Neral:

You're absolutely right.

John Neral:

You're not going to go anywhere.

John Neral:

Okay.

John Neral:

That was one thing came home, started having conversations with Richard about,

John Neral:

If I were to go out on my own, he has a job with benefits.

John Neral:

We're married.

John Neral:

I was able to hop on his benefits.

John Neral:

Those kinds of things were really important because I didn't want

John Neral:

It's just a good thing to have.

John Neral:

Right.

John Neral:

I think we can acknowledge that.

John Neral:

I hired a coach.

John Neral:

I hired a coach to work with me on if I was to go out on my own and

John Neral:

And we built a five-year plan together so that it wasn't just

John Neral:

We had to do a lot of financial planning and examination in terms of what would

John Neral:

Where do I need to be?

John Neral:

Who am I targeting?

John Neral:

Who are my marketing to who, where am I serving?

John Neral:

Where am I going to get the clients?

John Neral:

How am I going to be putting myself out there?

John Neral:

It was things even like how many people do I need to connect with

John Neral:

How many consults I would get for clients and out of that, how many

John Neral:

It was all of those data, things that I didn't know, the, a lore of being

John Neral:

I'm going to have my own business.

John Neral:

I'm going to do all of these things is great.

John Neral:

And it's wonderful until you sit there at one point for me, this definitely

John Neral:

And it's not the job.

John Neral:

That's the hobby.

John Neral:

This is my work.

John Neral:

And if I'm going to really make this happen, these are the things

John Neral:

So the planning piece was just huge for us.

David Shriner-Cahn:

Right.

David Shriner-Cahn:

And how important was it to have somebody guide you through the planning

John Neral:

part?

John Neral:

It was really integral for me.

John Neral:

I worked with an amazing business coach named Jeff St.

John Neral:

Laurent.

John Neral:

And the thing that I loved about him was we started talking about consistency.

John Neral:

Right.

John Neral:

It was things like you're going to send out your email, you're going to

John Neral:

You're going to do this many events, be it virtually or in person and

John Neral:

I didn't know enough about what that all was going to look like.

John Neral:

So to hire somebody that really became that partner for me,

John Neral:

I would not be where I am at.

John Neral:

Had I not enlisted the help of someone to guide me along that process and

John Neral:

And to help me make decisions about what was going to work for me.

John Neral:

I actually probably David, in all honesty, I might be back working a nine

David Shriner-Cahn:

John, what was most important to you?

David Shriner-Cahn:

Figuring out who could be the best help.

David Shriner-Cahn:

Cause there's so many people that, that call themselves business coaches

David Shriner-Cahn:

There's, there's really no barrier to entry.

David Shriner-Cahn:

There are a lot of people that call themselves business coaches that have

David Shriner-Cahn:

And I know that many people go through the same process of trying to get someone who

David Shriner-Cahn:

What kinds of questions were you asking there?

David Shriner-Cahn:

How did you figure out what would be most important to you and, and

John Neral:

help you get there?

John Neral:

The person I hired actually was somebody from my coaching certification program.

John Neral:

I went through IPEC, the Institute for professional excellence in coaching.

John Neral:

And he was tasked solely with a lot of the business end of things.

John Neral:

So there were opportunities for me to engage with him while I

John Neral:

But then when I started looking at his work and I started looking at.

John Neral:

The things that he had put out there, the resources, the content, the information

John Neral:

It was about listening as much watching as many videos, seeing if this was

John Neral:

It was those kind of things that made the fit.

John Neral:

Same really.

John Neral:

Easy at that point, I have worked with some other people and not

John Neral:

And in all fairness, I think we interact with different people at

John Neral:

Was walking a similar path that they had the competence and the confidence

David Shriner-Cahn:

Yeah.

David Shriner-Cahn:

That makes a lot of sense.

David Shriner-Cahn:

Well, John, congratulations on everything that you've achieved

David Shriner-Cahn:

What do you aspire?

David Shriner-Cahn:

Too in your work, in the future.

David Shriner-Cahn:

And how do you see it impacting this?

David Shriner-Cahn:

Um, the mid career challenges with that people face and applying.

John Neral:

Mid-career is probably the most fascinating part of the career

John Neral:

We go through our twenties and our thirties trying to figure

John Neral:

And then by the time we hit our forties, which is typically the wealth building

John Neral:

And it's a messy time.

John Neral:

A lot of times things happen in for me and my journey.

John Neral:

I was standing in front of a, a middle school mathematics classroom and teaching

John Neral:

11 years going, dear God, I don't think I can do this anymore.

John Neral:

Then trying to figure out exactly how I was going to take my

John Neral:

My purpose and my impact right now is to reach as many mid-career professionals as

John Neral:

It's natural and it's supposed to happen.

John Neral:

It is part of the career journey and in whatever capacity I can help them

John Neral:

They're going to be so much better on the other end because they're really

John Neral:

And that to me, is what I'm most excited about where I'm at in my

David Shriner-Cahn:

Wow.

David Shriner-Cahn:

It sounds remarkable.

David Shriner-Cahn:

Congratulations again, on, uh, what you've achieved, where your head.

David Shriner-Cahn:

If anyone wants to go deeper with anything we've discussed today, access any of the

David Shriner-Cahn:

Get in touch with you.

David Shriner-Cahn:

Where would be the best place for them to go.

John Neral:

Best place to go is my website@johnnarrow.com J O.

John Neral:

N N E R a L certainly connect with me on LinkedIn.

John Neral:

You can find me on Facebook and Instagram at John narrow coaching and

John Neral:

My

David Shriner-Cahn:

guest today has been the coach for mid-career professionals.

David Shriner-Cahn:

John narrow.

David Shriner-Cahn:

Thank you again, John, for joining

John Neral:

us.

John Neral:

Thanks David.

John Neral:

It was a pleasure

David Shriner-Cahn:

when you visit the smashing the plateau

David Shriner-Cahn:

You'll find a summary of each episode, along with the links we mentioned on the.

David Shriner-Cahn:

Today we learned how you can gain more control over your

David Shriner-Cahn:

I believe everyone should have the opportunity to do

David Shriner-Cahn:

What they're worth on my podcast.

David Shriner-Cahn:

I've interviewed hundreds of successful entrepreneurs, many of whom run

David Shriner-Cahn:

And we've created a free ebook with 49 actionable steps from 49 of our

David Shriner-Cahn:

It includes tips to help you with your mindset, relationships, business,

David Shriner-Cahn:

You can get your copy of 49 tips to smash your

David Shriner-Cahn:

That's smashing the plateau.com/tips.

David Shriner-Cahn:

Thank you for taking the time to listen to our show.

About the author, David Shriner-Cahn

David is the podcast host and community builder behind Smashing the Plateau, an online platform offering resources, accountability, and camaraderie to high-performing professionals who are making the leap from the corporate career track to entrepreneurial business ownership.

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