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Maximize Your Relationships with Your Income Sources Featuring Gary Ireland

Maximize Your Relationships with Your Income Sources Featuring Gary Ireland

Gary Ireland helps executives in transition to maximize income and benefits when joining a company and enhance severance and asserting rights when they’re leaving. Gary has helped many clients in financial services, banking, law, media, technology and higher education, among other fields. He also works with start-ups.

We discuss:

  • The best thing about employment law [01:26]
  • A relationship is a two-way street [04:56]
  • An [im]proper way to terminate a relationship [06:36]
  • Becoming a consultant to your former employer [10:20]
  • Creative solutions for maximizing profit and employee engagement [13:58]
  • Everybody that’s around an employee [15:35]
  • Best in something but still out of work [17:06]
  • Who are the most successful individuals [19:25]
  • The skills that help you prevail [21:24]

Learn more about Gary at http://irelandlaw.net.

Transcript
David Shriner-Cahn:

Welcome to smashing the plateau.

David Shriner-Cahn:

We help you get on stock so you can do what you love and get paid.

David Shriner-Cahn:

What you're worth consistent.

David Shriner-Cahn:

I'm your host David Schreiner Kahn.

Gary Ireland:

I would say that passion and perseverance will help you prevail.

Gary Ireland:

You need to be relentlessly enjoying what you do

David Shriner-Cahn:

today.

David Shriner-Cahn:

On episode 593 of smashing the plateau.

David Shriner-Cahn:

I'm speaking with employment attorney, Gary.

David Shriner-Cahn:

I'm going to ask Gary how you can maximize your relationships to boost your income

David Shriner-Cahn:

Stay with us to hear all the details you can find out more about Gary

David Shriner-Cahn:

Now let's welcome, Gary.

David Shriner-Cahn:

Gary helps executives and transition to maximize income and benefits

David Shriner-Cahn:

When leaving Gary has helped many clients in financial services,

David Shriner-Cahn:

He also works with startups, Gary, welcome to the show.

Gary Ireland:

Thanks for having me, David.

Gary Ireland:

I'm really grateful

David Shriner-Cahn:

that.

David Shriner-Cahn:

Yeah, it's great to have you on again.

David Shriner-Cahn:

Oh, Gary, you've been practicing law for a long time.

David Shriner-Cahn:

Have you always specialized in employment law?

David Shriner-Cahn:

I've

Gary Ireland:

always worked with employees moving in and out of

Gary Ireland:

I started in litigation and I continue with litigation if, if needed in

Gary Ireland:

But more now I worked in the area.

Gary Ireland:

Negotiating, uh, clients, when they're w you know, it'd be some, for example,

Gary Ireland:

I do that with mostly in the financial services area, media technology.

Gary Ireland:

And then I work with startups now.

Gary Ireland:

So it's especially in technology where they're taking off and, and they,

David Shriner-Cahn:

What is it about employment law that you

Gary Ireland:

love?

Gary Ireland:

I like getting the most out of both employees and employers.

Gary Ireland:

And I think with statistics showing that the disengagement

Gary Ireland:

And there's no way to get much out of an employee if they're not interested

Gary Ireland:

So if I'm working with employers, I want to make sure that

Gary Ireland:

And as for, from an employee standpoint, I want to make sure that they're

Gary Ireland:

And a lot of it is working with coaches like yourself, getting, getting my

Gary Ireland:

So

David Shriner-Cahn:

you, you work with both management and employees.

David Shriner-Cahn:

I worked

Gary Ireland:

predominantly with employees, but I also work with management

Gary Ireland:

Is to get people in general to do their best.

Gary Ireland:

And what I mean by that is I worked with my daughter and my son in the

Gary Ireland:

It's supposed to be the best leadership training for our

Gary Ireland:

And so many other girls wanted in and we spent nearly 10 years.

Gary Ireland:

Uh, breaking down the gender barriers.

Gary Ireland:

And we worked with the LGBT community.

Gary Ireland:

We worked with various organizations for an order for a, you know,

Gary Ireland:

And, uh, now there are some 200,000 young women that are able to join

Gary Ireland:

And my, my daughter is an Eagle scout.

Gary Ireland:

Now just like my son and the training to get there is so important.

Gary Ireland:

And I want opportunities the same way for employees and employers.

Gary Ireland:

To understand you, you look at a company like Patagonia that has a

Gary Ireland:

Well, most of the employees that I've spoken to that work there are,

Gary Ireland:

And they, uh, do the best they can for that company.

Gary Ireland:

And other companies can reach the same excellence and employees can as well.

Gary Ireland:

And I want to help them.

Gary Ireland:

That's a long winded answer to your question.

David Shriner-Cahn:

Well, no, but it's an important question because, um, I think

David Shriner-Cahn:

It only works well.

David Shriner-Cahn:

If both sides are, are motivated to drive success for everyone

David Shriner-Cahn:

And what I'm hearing from you is that right.

David Shriner-Cahn:

That's exactly where you're coming from.

Gary Ireland:

Right.

Gary Ireland:

So many employees want to get a job, but they haven't thought

Gary Ireland:

And sometimes when going for the job, they can actually speak to the

Gary Ireland:

To reach even higher excellence, even on the way.

Gary Ireland:

And our soon after they join.

Gary Ireland:

And sometimes I've had clients that weren't, weren't in a situation where

Gary Ireland:

I had a situation where we had a real serious illness with, with my wife and

Gary Ireland:

And other people are in similar situations and the pandemic has

Gary Ireland:

So if you need to work with.

Gary Ireland:

I've had clients where there they go in for one thing and they end up coming out

Gary Ireland:

So I try to.

Gary Ireland:

Navigate situations when working with employers and employees to

David Shriner-Cahn:

Right.

David Shriner-Cahn:

So what are some examples of some of the cases you've worked on that have

David Shriner-Cahn:

Boosts success on both sides.

David Shriner-Cahn:

Clearly you represent only one side when there's a negotiation, but what are

Gary Ireland:

I've gone into a situation where a client joins a

Gary Ireland:

There's so much more potential in that employee that I generally

Gary Ireland:

And one day too, you know, I think this particular person wanted to get at.

Gary Ireland:

And the company wanted to a commitment from that, that employee and it worked

Gary Ireland:

I've also heard real tragic stories.

Gary Ireland:

I'm working with someone right now who is a very high and executive.

Gary Ireland:

She came into a company, she had a serious illness going in.

Gary Ireland:

It was obvious to everyone involved.

Gary Ireland:

And almost immediately, they tried to, they undercut her, uh, authority,

Gary Ireland:

And even on the way out, whether it was purposeful or not, she was denied, um,

Gary Ireland:

You know, she needed that to save her life.

Gary Ireland:

Um, it was one of the most egregious examples of discrimination,

Gary Ireland:

Management in that.

Gary Ireland:

If you're going to terminate someone with an illness at the very least, you better

Gary Ireland:

She never even gotten notice of an opportunity to get a Cobra.

Gary Ireland:

Employers must be cognizant of if you're going to terminate a

Gary Ireland:

Who's got a life-threatening illness.

Gary Ireland:

But at the very least when it's time for someone to leave a company,

Gary Ireland:

This, this woman was stripped of her dignity.

Gary Ireland:

She was humiliated, and then they, they exacerbated a life threatening illness.

Gary Ireland:

So you can imagine her anxiety levels.

David Shriner-Cahn:

And is that case still going on or is it done?

David Shriner-Cahn:

It is

Gary Ireland:

still going on.

Gary Ireland:

Unfortunately, I was, I was able, when I got the case, I was able to,

Gary Ireland:

And, and that night, um, her benefits were reinstated.

Gary Ireland:

That should never happen.

Gary Ireland:

And that's where HR has to be more responsible and everyone, I

Gary Ireland:

She should've said, listen, we're going to make sure that we take care of you.

Gary Ireland:

You know, we, we believe it was her reasons other than her performance,

Gary Ireland:

You know?

Gary Ireland:

And, and, and employers, I think our understanding is that as the

Gary Ireland:

Uh, market, uh, we're we're employees can go in and dictate some terms.

Gary Ireland:

It's a good time to be saying, Hey, listen, I want to work

Gary Ireland:

They've gotta be committed to their own, you know, those employees.

Gary Ireland:

And even if they, if it's time for someone to leave, they have to let

Gary Ireland:

It's got, it's got to work that way, where you just having, um,

Gary Ireland:

That's that goes back to what I said before.

Gary Ireland:

If you want committed employees that are going to be dedicated to your

David Shriner-Cahn:

Let's talk a little bit more about the, the

David Shriner-Cahn:

You mentioned that it is common in those situations for that individual.

David Shriner-Cahn:

To also become a consultant for the employer that he, that he

David Shriner-Cahn:

I've

Gary Ireland:

seen that happen where, where there's a transition in the company.

Gary Ireland:

There may not be enough money in one area of the company to afford a full-time

Gary Ireland:

So if there's a big enough company and they're looking to, if they value

Gary Ireland:

And I've seen that happen many times and I think it's, it's important

Gary Ireland:

I do my best to try to be creative and offer other solutions.

Gary Ireland:

And really when, when I'm trying to negotiate a severance or even if I'm

Gary Ireland:

Uh, discrimination and then it gets both sides can get entrenched.

Gary Ireland:

So you need to be creative and open open-minded, um, and, and

David Shriner-Cahn:

to the table.

David Shriner-Cahn:

Right.

David Shriner-Cahn:

So one of the things that you're saying is when there's a, essentially

David Shriner-Cahn:

So for example, one of the things we talk about a lot on this show is for

David Shriner-Cahn:

And I'm.

David Shriner-Cahn:

And I like to describe it as happening either by design or by circumstance.

David Shriner-Cahn:

So sometimes the employee is proactive and may see a situation that's not working out

David Shriner-Cahn:

They've hit a plateau in terms of responsibility in terms of compensation.

David Shriner-Cahn:

And, um, and they may be working more and more on things that aren't the best.

David Shriner-Cahn:

And they think that they'll have more control over their destiny

David Shriner-Cahn:

So they leave proactively and then start a consulting business.

David Shriner-Cahn:

The circumstance situation is when an employee gets pushed.

David Shriner-Cahn:

Sometimes it's a situation where all of a sudden there's a new direct supervisor

David Shriner-Cahn:

So they may look to.

David Shriner-Cahn:

Terminate more highly compensated people who are direct reports, that

David Shriner-Cahn:

Sometimes there's a change in the marketplace and that like you alluded

David Shriner-Cahn:

And, um, they may again look to, to.

David Shriner-Cahn:

The more highly compensated people would tend to be the older people.

David Shriner-Cahn:

So even if you, if you take out the formal age discrimination from, from

David Shriner-Cahn:

Do I want to look for another job or would I rather be self-employed so

Gary Ireland:

Leave the company and, and file something because, uh, you know,

Gary Ireland:

That's a huge number.

Gary Ireland:

And how are you going to get those employees to be a fit?

Gary Ireland:

When they're concerned about that.

Gary Ireland:

But then moving on to, I had an employee recently who was a top producer at a

Gary Ireland:

Now you've got a highly valued employee who I saw as

Gary Ireland:

Um, he was, he was really highly respected.

Gary Ireland:

Rather than moving that employee out.

Gary Ireland:

Why not look towards finding another position within the company, not

Gary Ireland:

So how do you, how do you work around that?

Gary Ireland:

And I think companies have to be more engaging in the needs of their employees

Gary Ireland:

What was going on within the company towards this, this valued

David Shriner-Cahn:

feel right?

David Shriner-Cahn:

It impacts the behavior and the productivity of everybody

Gary Ireland:

And I see so many companies looking towards, well, we

Gary Ireland:

It's just this one employee.

Gary Ireland:

Now it's everyone around that employee that sees what's the way

Gary Ireland:

Particularly if it's a valued long-term.

Gary Ireland:

They need to have full engagement.

Gary Ireland:

And that's why I recommend bringing in coaches like yourself, David,

Gary Ireland:

And committed to bringing out the excellence in, in both management and

Gary Ireland:

And it takes a real professional, I've studied leadership for a long time,

Gary Ireland:

And it really is the same thing.

Gary Ireland:

It's, it's like coaching and, you know, we see the Olympics coming up

Gary Ireland:

And how do you bring the best out of them?

Gary Ireland:

It's really the same.

Gary Ireland:

Methodology that you want to find out what, and what drives one employee.

Gary Ireland:

Isn't going to be the same as what drives another employee.

Gary Ireland:

Their values may be different.

Gary Ireland:

Their needs may be different.

Gary Ireland:

Someone may be having difficulty with childcare.

Gary Ireland:

And that's why we see that at the forefront of legislation right now,

Gary Ireland:

And the employers aren't are blind to that.

Gary Ireland:

Oftentimes they just don't want to read it.

Gary Ireland:

Right.

Gary Ireland:

That's, that's an issue.

Gary Ireland:

So I'm trying to find out whatever motivates people.

Gary Ireland:

Let's figure that out and, and try to, if we can get them, get it for

David Shriner-Cahn:

them right now, in the case where the employee does decide

Gary Ireland:

Well, I just finished a program called the Goldman Sachs

Gary Ireland:

And, uh, I just spoke at their graduation last week and it was, they, they teach

Gary Ireland:

And so it's a 13 module that, and you figure out what, where are the needs,

Gary Ireland:

And if nobody wants.

Gary Ireland:

You're still going to be out of work.

Gary Ireland:

So you've got to figure out what and where your interests lie

Gary Ireland:

Uh, I'll take you as an example.

Gary Ireland:

I've known you for a long time now, David, and I've seen you, you, you bring

Gary Ireland:

I see, you know, your, your smile broadens.

Gary Ireland:

So if you can find that.

Gary Ireland:

Excellence and that passion and align those.

Gary Ireland:

Then you've got a consultancy that's going to work great.

Gary Ireland:

And you need to then market.

Gary Ireland:

And that's where I think we all need to figure out how to be better.

Gary Ireland:

Marketers.

David Shriner-Cahn:

Yeah.

David Shriner-Cahn:

W where do you see accelerating the success of this transition?

David Shriner-Cahn:

Cause w one of the things that happens when you go from employment

David Shriner-Cahn:

How your trajectory of your compensation.

David Shriner-Cahn:

If you lose a job and your income was coming primarily from the job, then

David Shriner-Cahn:

And if you get another job, your income goes from zero back to a hundred percent.

David Shriner-Cahn:

Also overnight, when you start a consulting business, it doesn't work.

David Shriner-Cahn:

That way could actually take a lot longer than many people realize to replicate.

David Shriner-Cahn:

Your previous income as an employee and the ones, uh, people that,

David Shriner-Cahn:

Now, since you worked so closely with people on an individual basis, and

David Shriner-Cahn:

For people going from employment to connect.

David Shriner-Cahn:

That's a great

Gary Ireland:

question.

Gary Ireland:

I find that the most successful, um, individuals are the ones that have

Gary Ireland:

And oftentimes it's, it's by choice sometimes it's not.

Gary Ireland:

Uh, but they also have a support system, whether it be through

Gary Ireland:

Through a spouse or partner that has insurance because insurance is

Gary Ireland:

How are you going to do that while you move on to your next opportunity?

Gary Ireland:

And that's important to have thought through clearly while you're doing that.

Gary Ireland:

And, and so many people that I see have principals that are aligned with

Gary Ireland:

Who's.

Gary Ireland:

I may have a job that provides benefits.

Gary Ireland:

I know that when I went out on my own, I had a partner who was a hundred percent

Gary Ireland:

And, uh, and we had real alignment of values.

Gary Ireland:

You know, and, and, um, she saw what I did and I took on some cases

Gary Ireland:

There was one in south hall that, that we ended up winning a jury trial.

Gary Ireland:

And this is before videos and, and it was a repeated.

Gary Ireland:

Assault on a, uh, an, uh, an African-American member of

Gary Ireland:

And we brought a civil rights case, which was not populated.

Gary Ireland:

This was the early two thousands.

Gary Ireland:

And, um, and we prevailed, but it took years.

Gary Ireland:

And, um, fortunately I had a very supportive and patient partner that was

David Shriner-Cahn:

Right.

David Shriner-Cahn:

So one of the things I'm hearing from you is patience and perseverance

David Shriner-Cahn:

So you can keep paying your personal expenses as you build up your business.

David Shriner-Cahn:

There's also really important,

Gary Ireland:

right?

Gary Ireland:

I would say that that passion and perseverance will help you prevail

Gary Ireland:

Right.

Gary Ireland:

So you've got to have this passion that fires you up to get up every morning

Gary Ireland:

And what's going to do that.

Gary Ireland:

You know, obviously some of it's monetary, but a lot of it is, uh, you know, I, I

Gary Ireland:

Yeah,

David Shriner-Cahn:

for sure.

David Shriner-Cahn:

Gary, is there anything else that, that I haven't asked you that you, that you

Gary Ireland:

You know, as, as a manager, I would say,

Gary Ireland:

We have, we have people that, that look to us for, for ideas, for support.

Gary Ireland:

And one of the things that there's many, many quotes, but I love the quote by my

Gary Ireland:

And so let's think about that.

Gary Ireland:

It's how you made them feel.

Gary Ireland:

So let's, let's think about how many, at least in my business, how many managers

Gary Ireland:

So I'm saying to all the managers out there and everyone that works with a

David Shriner-Cahn:

So well said, Gary, if somebody wants to go deeper with anything

Gary Ireland:

Sure.

Gary Ireland:

Anybody can email me.

Gary Ireland:

I'm at jerry@irelandlaw.net, gary@irelandlaw.net.

Gary Ireland:

I welcome the opportunity to speak with anyone and David I'm

Gary Ireland:

And thanks for having me on.

David Shriner-Cahn:

Yeah, it's it's an honor to have you as well.

David Shriner-Cahn:

Gary, thank you so much.

David Shriner-Cahn:

Have a great day.

David Shriner-Cahn:

My guest today has been employment attorney Gary Ireland.

David Shriner-Cahn:

Thank you Gary, for joining us.

Gary Ireland:

Thank you.

Gary Ireland:

David principle centered leadership is so important and, and you're,

Gary Ireland:

Thank you.

David Shriner-Cahn:

When you visit the smashing the plateau

David Shriner-Cahn:

Today we learned how you can maximize your relationships to boost your income

David Shriner-Cahn:

Remember to subscribe on whatever platform you listen on and leave a review.

David Shriner-Cahn:

If you can.

David Shriner-Cahn:

Thank you for taking the time to listen to our show.

About the author, David Shriner-Cahn

Host of the podcasts Smashing the Plateau and Going Solo, David guides solopreneurs selling knowledge and creativity to build profitability and sustainability in their businesses.

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